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18 May 2004



The "war" is not about land or refugees or anything like that. It's about victory. The Palestinians want to get their land by "winning", not by asking for it. And the Israelis know they'll have to give up the Bank and Gaza and are now just fighting so they can say they gave the land out of "good-will," not because they were forced. The way I see it, the Palestinians wanted a fight and now they have it. (Oh, and the constant over-reaction is just mind numbing -- at the first site of Israeli tanks, you hear "massacre" and "Jenin" -- let's not forget that Jenin was a brutal fight in which 23 soldiers were killed and those bulldozers had to be brought in to crush the resistance.)

L of C

Thanks for your idiotic blatherings, None. It is a mystery isn't it, why people insist on over- reacting to stuff like this?

And as for Jenin, I'm with you all the way. What was Israel meant to do with those 85-year-old members of the resistance, if not bulldoze them in their own homes? Crush 8 members of a single family to death, and suddenly you're a bad person!

One other thing before you leave (thanks Woot).


First -- the family link you post is from Nablus, not Jenin. I wasn't speaking about Nablus, and quite frankly, if the allegations are true (and they seem true) the soldier(s) should/ should have been tried. An army being an army though (and this goes for every single army in the world) that won't happen.

As for the first link, here is one for you to chew on. 14 bodies, all male, 3 Hamas, 3 Jihad, 1 Al Aqsa, and 7 not "in colors", which means that they are either Fatah or civilians. Then add 1 more whos bomb exploded in his hands, and you have 15 males killed. The 2 children I'm sorry for, but that's the kind of thing that happens in combat -- you'd know that if you've ever experienced it. If the Palestinians want to avoid civilian casualties, why don't they, you know, melt away when the army comes into the camps. That way, no one gets killed. Oh, and perhaps the glorious fighters may want to end scenes like (link removed - L o C) this, (link removed - L o C) this, this, and so on, which is pretty much why there are such high civilian casualties in the first place. For a detailed breakdown of the statistics, check this and this out. It might help you understand the situation slightly better.

It looks to me like your viewpoints come from the assumptions that war is bad and killing is wrong. No d'uh. But once two nations/societies are engaged in war, you have to set that aside and look at you know, how each side fights, who is more responsible and the like.

L o C

1. I know where the bulldozer incident was from. I was rebutting yr point that Israel reserves its bulldozers for killing the resistance.

2. Invasions like Rafah are not two nations/societies engaged in war; Rafah is an illegal invasion by a foreign army, to perpetuate an illegal occupation by that country. So I am very much aware of who is more responsible, and the like. I too would prefer that militants did not shoot back when Israel invades Palestinian refugee camps, even though they have every right to do so under international law, just as you would have the right to fight back in any way available to you against a foreign army invading yr neighborhood. And Palestinian militants do not have the choice of where to fight: they fight where they are invaded which, in Israel’s recent attacks on Gaza, happens to be in the most densely-populated civilian neighborhoods on the face of the earth.

3. Apart from the fact that Fatah members would probably chose to be buried in pale yellow or in al-Aqsa colors, you are reading way too much into the use of “colors”. Colors are worn to indicate affiliation, they are also very commonly used because in poverty-stricken areas like Gaza the only way to pay for burial of the dead is to accept “sponsorship” by a militant organization. Poor families get a proper funeral, militant groups get to boost their apparent membership. Hope that “might help you understand the situation slightly better”.

4. I see from the url that you sent an LGF “child abuse” selection. I’m not sure what is the point of that, as I could just as easily put together a “child abuse” photo album of dead Palestinian children, and we could exchange photos till the cows come home without communicating a thing to each other. Please don’t ever put any links on this site to any site that routinely advocates genocide. I would no more allow a link to LGF here than I would to Stormfront.

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